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SirFreakOfTheInk
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:45 am   Reply with quoteBack to top

I found one for country that looks good...LINK. I couldn't find very many reviews, but most of the Fretboard Roadmaps books have good ratings. Has anyone tried one of these?
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X100BNut
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:57 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

I think I have the standard "Fretboard Roadmaps", the Jazz version, and the Blues version. The books concentrate on the big picture, e.g. showing how to play every major chord in five postions, scale patterns on the fingerboard in various positions, circle of fifths, etc. At every point, there are examples with a CD to show you how they should sound. The standard version will get you good at three-chord songs and show you the relative minors, the blues version covers more 7th chords and pentatonic scales, and the jazz version covers more complex chord forms (6ths, 9ths, etc) and more mode-based scales. The books are good for learning to move up and down the neck, if you use them for that, and this really adds interest and drama. It's great to be able to make the top note of the chord you're playing be the note in the line you're playing. Things like playing an open string or two when playing a chord up the neck adds fullness, particularly useful for solo playing.

If you don't have a book that works the whole fingerboard, and CAGED means nothing to you, it's certainly worth a lot more than $10, and this series is pretty good at it. If you have at least a theoretical grasp of such things, you can probably come up with exercises yourself that will have the same benefit for you.

My favorite book right now is "Blues by the Bar - Cool Riffs That Sound Great Over Each Portion of the Blues Progression" by Chris Hunt. It has very little theory (some blues boxes, scales, and an explaination of the stock chord progressions), then dives into about 60 tasty two-measure phrases. The "Cool" thing here is that the phrases are classic blues style moves, and Chris Hunt playes very expressively, with lots of bends, slides, rakes, pre-bends, quarter-step bends, grace notes, etc.. Since the phrases are short, you can play them on repeat, and listen - play along - listen - play along until you master his whole vocabulary. It finishes with two 12-bar solos and 6 backing tracks in three keys (the rest of the book is in G, but all over the neck, and easily transposed). You can really learn to make a guitar talk, a useful skill for many styles.

Book learnin' is fine, but I don't just naturally play by ear, and most books won't get me there, even if I intellectually understand the concepts. I need to get my ears and fingers playing the music. We just don't have time to think through music theory when we're playing. I need to hear the chord changes, play the right scales, know which inversion I need, know which string in a chord fingering has the note I'm looking for, etc. I have to work at it. I find that doing the exercises that I used to resist, up and down the fingerboard, seeing relationships, modes, etc., is yielding slow but steady dividends.

I don't have any talent, but I believe that if I keep working at it, I can give the illusion.
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SirFreakOfTheInk
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:00 am   Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
If you don't have a book that works the whole fingerboard, and CAGED means nothing to you, it's certainly worth a lot more than $10, and this series is pretty good at it.

I have a book that covers modes, scale patterns, chords, etc, etc, but have never heard of CAGED. Maybe a Google search will turn up something on that later.

It's not easy finding books or videos that aren't just a bunch of licks. I'd like to find something that goes into various techniques used in country like chicken picking, Travis picking, mimicking the steel guitar, and so on. At least the book I have will keep me busy while trying to find material on the techniques mentioned above. I found some videos while searching and might go with one or more of those eventually. IF they have a slow motion replay that is, some of those guys are fast.

Thanks for the info, X100, it saved me from ordering something that is mostly the same as what I already have.
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mgood
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:32 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

Have they got one for bass?
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mindstream
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:02 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

X100BNut wrote:
I think I have the standard "Fretboard Roadmaps", the Jazz version, and the Blues version. The books concentrate on the big picture, e.g. showing how to play every major chord in five postions, scale patterns on the fingerboard in various positions, circle of fifths, etc. At every point, there are examples with a CD to show you how they should sound. The standard version will get you good at three-chord songs and show you the relative minors, the blues version covers more 7th chords and pentatonic scales, and the jazz version covers more complex chord forms (6ths, 9ths, etc) and more mode-based scales. The books are good for learning to move up and down the neck, if you use them for that, and this really adds interest and drama. It's great to be able to make the top note of the chord you're playing be the note in the line you're playing. Things like playing an open string or two when playing a chord up the neck adds fullness, particularly useful for solo playing.

If you don't have a book that works the whole fingerboard, and CAGED means nothing to you, it's certainly worth a lot more than $10, and this series is pretty good at it. If you have at least a theoretical grasp of such things, you can probably come up with exercises yourself that will have the same benefit for you.

My favorite book right now is "Blues by the Bar - Cool Riffs That Sound Great Over Each Portion of the Blues Progression" by Chris Hunt. It has very little theory (some blues boxes, scales, and an explaination of the stock chord progressions), then dives into about 60 tasty two-measure phrases. The "Cool" thing here is that the phrases are classic blues style moves, and Chris Hunt playes very expressively, with lots of bends, slides, rakes, pre-bends, quarter-step bends, grace notes, etc.. Since the phrases are short, you can play them on repeat, and listen - play along - listen - play along until you master his whole vocabulary. It finishes with two 12-bar solos and 6 backing tracks in three keys (the rest of the book is in G, but all over the neck, and easily transposed). You can really learn to make a guitar talk, a useful skill for many styles.

Book learnin' is fine, but I don't just naturally play by ear, and most books won't get me there, even if I intellectually understand the concepts. I need to get my ears and fingers playing the music. We just don't have time to think through music theory when we're playing. I need to hear the chord changes, play the right scales, know which inversion I need, know which string in a chord fingering has the note I'm looking for, etc. I have to work at it. I find that doing the exercises that I used to resist, up and down the fingerboard, seeing relationships, modes, etc., is yielding slow but steady dividends.

I don't have any talent, but I believe that if I keep working at it, I can give the illusion.


I'm working through "Blues By The Bar" too. I really like it for pretty much the same reasons you spelled out.
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X100BNut
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:28 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

CAGED. You should know about it.

I need to get some terminology in place first. if you play an open "E" chord, those three fingers form a certain shape on three strings. You can play a barred G chord at the third fret with the same shape, which I will call the "E" form, third fret. You can also play an A chord with the same shape, "E" form at the fifth fret, and so on. Also, the fattest string is the sixth string, counting down to the skinniest string, which is the first string.

There are five easy major chords in the open position with five or six strings available: C, A, G, E and D, and all can be transposed up the neck and played as barre chords.

So play a C in the open position. There's a C on the fifth string at the third fret. An A chord has its root on the fifth string, so we can play an "A" form barred up three frets at the third fret, and also get a C chord. The "A" form will have it's root on the third string, in this case at the fifth fret. "G" forms have their root at the barre on the third string, so we can also play a C chord as a "G" form barred up two frets at the fifth fret. "G" forms have their root three frets up on the sixth and first string, in this case, at the eighth fret. "E" forms have their roots at the barre on the sixth and first string, so we can play a C chord as an "E" form at the eighth fret. The "E" form has a root on the fourth string, in this case up two frets at the tenth fret. The "D" form has its root at the barre on the fourth string, so we can play a C chord as a "D" form up two more frets at the tenth fret. We get a CAGED sequence of forms moving up the neck playing the same chord.

The cycle repeats. The "D" form has its root on the second string, in this case, at the thirteenth fret. The "C" form has its root on the second string, one fret up from the barre, so we can play a "C" form barred at the twelvth fret (at least if we have a cutaway), and obviously get another "C" chord.

Now you can't be thinking about this stuff when you're playing, but what we have here is a simple pattern that will let us transpose a chord. "E" form at the fifth fret (A chord)? Move it up. cagED. "D" form up two frets. Move it down - caGEd. "G" form down three frets. With the exception of the "C" form to "D" form and "D" form to "C" form transitions, there a simple trick. Moving up, the next chord is barred at the highest fret used by the lower position chord. Moving down, the next chord's highest note is at the barre position of the previous chord.

Why is this important? Certainly it's best to just know the five positions you can play each major chord in by wrote. Let's expand the CAGED concept just a little to see it's power. When you play a scale in the key of "C" in the open position, let's include the notes played at the nut and call that a "C" form. When you play a D form as a "C" form barred up two frets, the associated D scale is the "C" scale up two frets. So if you know your C, A, G, E, and D scales in the open position, you know what scale to play in the keys of each of the five forms (with practice). It sure beats learning sixty scales (12 keys, 5 postions each).

One chord tunes aren't very interesing. We'll need to be able to find the IV and V chords for the C, A, G, E, and D forms. But this is easy too. In G, the IV chord is C, and the V chord is D. It's the same for the "G" form. The IV chord is the "C" form. The V chord is the "D" form. Learn the I, IV and V chords for C, A, G, E, and D, and you'll be able to play them up and down the neck. You'll want the V7 chord, but these are the 7th forms of the C, A, G, E, and D forms. You'll run out of fingers on a barred C7, but you can figure out how to do the bottom four strings, middle four strings, or top four strings.

So now you're playing three chord ditties in any key up and down the neck, and you've only learned 5 barre chords and five scales.

Unfortunately, there's only about three big 5 or six string minor forms, the Dm, Em, and Am forms. Using these three forms, you can find the IIm, IIm and VI minor forms you need within a few frets, and the VII diminished is also close by. You can figure out some minor triads to substitue as well if you want to stay in the same position.

Learn the major and minor pentatonic scales for the five major (seventh) forms, and now you're a bluesman and a rocker.

This stuff works great for chord-melody solo work and adding chords to solos. You can go up or down a few frets and find other inversions of chords as you need them to keep the melody on a top or bottom string. You have five versions of all the the major chords, and three versions of all the minor chords available to you once you've made the pattern automatic.


It's easy to get these concepts into your brain, but again, that won't help you. You'll need to come up with exercises, and practice them alot to make things automatic. The strength of the approach is that you are really only learning 5 positions in one key, and everything else transposes just by sliding up or down the fingerboard. I don't think it's silly to work this stuff for half your practice time for a year. I do it. I find I'm doing much better at playing by ear because of it. Pick a key, play the chords and scles in the five positions, play scales that migrate between two adjacent positions, play the appropriate modal scales over the chords in each position, Run the thirds and fourths in each position, play the I, IIm, IIIm, IV, V, VIm and VIIdim chords moving up the neck each time, then do it descending. It's easy to think of things to do. There's not much in this sytem that will teach you the names of the actual notes you'll be playing, so incorporate saying the actual names of the notes and chords as you practice until you have them mastered.

The series of "Fretboard Logic" books is pretty much totally based on these ideas, with pretty diagrams of how things fit on the whole fingerboard, better discussion of how to deal with minor keys, etc. (but no exercises). The same approach works for bass as well, as "Fretboard Logic - Bass" attests.

This approach won't make you a great classical guitarist or jazz master, but it's not a bad start, and you might be able to fake it.
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sirmyghin
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:37 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

the fretboard logic is pretty interesting indeed, the barre style chords g and D are a little tricky though, as for a bass variant if you learn it on guitar you have it on bass already, I guess its good for people who do not play both though.
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X100BNut
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:04 am   Reply with quoteBack to top

Don't forget the open strings. I like to play in D because you get open G, D, A and E on the low strings, and you get two D's, G and A in drop-D. Then when you play a "G" form for a D at the seventh fret, you only need to fret string 1-3, you can play five strings (six in drop-D), and it sounds huge, with three or four octaves of Ds. For the A chord in that position, you're playing a "D" form, and you only have to fret strings 2-4 (you'll probably want to get the first string too), with six strings available. For the G chord, you're playing a C chord, and you only have to fret strings 2, 4 and 5 to get all six strings to work, though once again, fretting string one is useful too.

Playing in D at the seventh fret is kind of a best case situation, but any time you play a chord that uses open strings in the first position, you can leave them open, and it sounds great, kind of like a 12-string or two guitars. It's one of the joys of moving up the neck. Combine the technique with a capo and a chorus, and you're an orchestra.

Adjacent octaves at the fifth and seventh fret are a joy too.

You've only got to barre two strings for the "D" form. You should be able to do it. It's pretty easy to play the top four strings or the bottom five strings of the "G" form too.
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SirFreakOfTheInk
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:16 am   Reply with quoteBack to top

X100BNut wrote:
CAGED. You should know about it.



I probably already do and just didn't know the name for it. Thanks for posting that info, it's downloaded to check out later. Smile
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