KieselGuitars.com     FAQ    Search    Memberlist    Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  
 
 
 how loud is too loud/mastering and mixing View next topic
View previous topic
Post new topicReply to topic
Author Message
jca78
Member of the Family


Offline
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 494
Location: outside charlotte nc

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:04 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

where does everyone set their levels during mixing and mastering. i have heard differing opinions on this. some say set at -6db during mixing then go as loud as you can during mastering and others say louder isnt always better but most record companies are making there stuff as loud as it can get.... ive done it both way and i feel getting as close to 0db(peaking out) without clipping (or compressing the crap out of it) sounds better than at -6db nominal with peaks reaching to -3 to 4 or so.

ideas??? thoughts?

_________________
carvin user since 1989
sound click link
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=841151
http://indiemusicworks.com/artists/his_life_for_mine/
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
mge80
Howlin' Woof


Offline
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 1044
Location: The Woods of Wisconsin

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:24 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

How loud is too loud???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cZ8FvjsbKE

_________________
Alaskan Malamute Assistance League
View user's profileSend private message
jca78
Member of the Family


Offline
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 494
Location: outside charlotte nc

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:51 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

it is hip to be square, question stands.

_________________
carvin user since 1989
sound click link
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=841151
http://indiemusicworks.com/artists/his_life_for_mine/
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
peb
The PuppetMaster


Offline
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 1142
Location: Next to SC - lucky ME!

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:52 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top


HUH??

WHAT DID HE SAY??

CREW LOAD?? WHATZZAT??

Not that I'm any kind of an expert, my preference is to record low where there's few, if any, peaks and then punch it up during mastering.

peb

_________________
Felonious thread killa
View user's profileSend private messageAIM AddressYahoo Messenger
jca78
Member of the Family


Offline
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 494
Location: outside charlotte nc

PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:30 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

peb what levels are you seeing when mixing. do you compress hard when mastering to get the volume you want or let the song breathe? thanks. j.

_________________
carvin user since 1989
sound click link
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=841151
http://indiemusicworks.com/artists/his_life_for_mine/
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
Oscar Ortega
Musician


Offline
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Based out of Boise, ID

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:13 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
where does everyone set their levels during mixing and mastering. i have heard differing opinions on this. some say set at -6db during mixing then go as loud as you can during mastering and others say louder isnt always better but most record companies are making there stuff as loud as it can get.... ive done it both way and i feel getting as close to 0db(peaking out) without clipping (or compressing the crap out of it) sounds better than at -6db nominal with peaks reaching to -3 to 4 or so.

ideas??? thoughts?


In my opinion, Its all on personal preference....

With that being said, I like to have my mix in a medium/loud quality overall....for example, without having anything compressed yet, I like to have the instruments an overall balanced feel, adjusting volumes, effects ect...after that, then I start tweeking the db's and such...my overall goal is not to clip anywhere during the song...I try to stay in the 2nd line of yellow and try not to pass after that...then its too close for clipping and might not be able to work with mastering...

good luck!
View user's profileSend private messageMSN Messenger
jca78
Member of the Family


Offline
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 494
Location: outside charlotte nc

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:40 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

thanks, saorta my trend as i dont or try not to compress anything during recording or mixing to let the songs sound dynamic. and just mild compression during mastering for any stray peaks that got through. ive tried the -6db thing and i dont like it, think ill go back to punching it up a bit during mixing to escape any noise.

_________________
carvin user since 1989
sound click link
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=841151
http://indiemusicworks.com/artists/his_life_for_mine/
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
Oscar Ortega
Musician


Offline
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Based out of Boise, ID

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:11 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

jca78 wrote:
thanks, saorta my trend as i dont or try not to compress anything during recording or mixing to let the songs sound dynamic. and just mild compression during mastering for any stray peaks that got through. ive tried the -6db thing and i dont like it, think ill go back to punching it up a bit during mixing to escape any noise.


just consider that your mix is the way your final recording will sound. so you want to try and have the best possible mix (try not to over do it as it can become real easy to do so Mr. Green i speak from experience) the mastering is a completely beast because its a different type of listening...but as a "starter" concentrate on getting the best overall mix possible. also remember to get all the instruments recorded the way you want them (peak levels, compressor when recording, effects) and things like that...

_________________
www.oscarortega.net - www.myspace.com/oscarortega

"The only limits you have are the ones you put on yourself" - Baxter Humby
View user's profileSend private messageMSN Messenger
jca78
Member of the Family


Offline
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 494
Location: outside charlotte nc

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:19 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

the way i learned was when recording to slide my faders to unity and adjust my pre acordingly to get the hottest signal possable, then you should at playback have a rough mix. should. you are correct at the mastering ear/listening thing, wow can be a headache for sure. i go for a minimalist master per track, not a lot of processing if i can help it as i do (im sure you as well) in the mix as far as any eq-ing to even out the sound and make space where its muddy. my biggest question on this post is the current trend to get the track as loud as possable "how loud is too loud?" i guess its go as loud as you can before you peak out lol, or do as metallica did on the last album and over saturate then go louder and peaks be dammed. i dont have the editing power on my rig to go into the wave and physicaly lower a random spike below clipping like pro tools can. though that would make life a bit easier.

oscar with all respect, what is the second line of yellow? ive used different consoles in the past and most have their db vs. color in slightly different spots. where are you at -6? or -4? your medium loud sounds like where i need to be, and used to be before trying the even -6db mix trick.

thanks for all the help everyone !!!!

_________________
carvin user since 1989
sound click link
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=841151
http://indiemusicworks.com/artists/his_life_for_mine/
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
Oscar Ortega
Musician


Offline
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Based out of Boise, ID

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:02 am   Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
oscar with all respect, what is the second line of yellow? ive used different consoles in the past and most have their db vs. color in slightly different spots. where are you at -6? or -4? your medium loud sounds like where i need to be, and used to be before trying the even -6db mix trick.


Sorry man, what i was meaning on the "2nd line of yellow" is in the mixer...when you see the green lines, yellow and red (when you peak)...my vocabulary for mixing is limited so I have to go with color coordination Laughing

In my mixer I have 2 green dots that show 20 then 0 *im assuming this is 0db, then it shows a yellow dot with the number 6 *this could be +6) and then the red that show "clip"

i beg you, dont go the metallica route... Crying lol

_________________
www.oscarortega.net - www.myspace.com/oscarortega

"The only limits you have are the ones you put on yourself" - Baxter Humby
View user's profileSend private messageMSN Messenger
sirmyghin
Way Too Much Free Time


Offline
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 3072
Location: Canadia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:14 am   Reply with quoteBack to top

Oscar Ortega wrote:

i beg you, dont go the metallica route... Crying lol


Indeed they do enough butchery of music on their own Very Happy
View user's profileSend private message
jca78
Member of the Family


Offline
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 494
Location: outside charlotte nc

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:04 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

i hate the fact metallica used rick ruben for this album... i think his "raw" sound is ummm... a little over the top. coughcoughsuxcough. sorry.

my red peaks start after 0db so +2 woud be a major peak. 0db is the loud goal for transients and -2 for the body, depending on the song...in an ideal world.

you have a great sound though!! something for me to shoot for.

_________________
carvin user since 1989
sound click link
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=841151
http://indiemusicworks.com/artists/his_life_for_mine/
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
BluesPicker
Way Too Much Free Time


Offline
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 3487

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:08 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

With analog (tape), you could go into the red and you'd get some nice warm sounds. Digital recording is a whole 'nuther critter, and if you ride the red, you will pay with some crackling, snappy, distorted sounds.

I have a bad habit of cranking everything up loud in the headphones. Of course, after a while, that doiesn't seem loud enough and you want to inch the slider up more to get more loudness. Don't do it. I've learned the hard way to keep your peaks low -- I shoot for -3 to -6, and to turn down the cans so I can hear what's going on.

You want to give yourself some room to breath when you master it, and that's when you can bring things up all together. I wind up with pretty loud-sounding recordings, but with clarity and no unwanted digital-related distortion.

But that's just me, and I'm no recording engineer. I just know what seems to work for me.
View user's profileSend private message
jca78
Member of the Family


Offline
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 494
Location: outside charlotte nc

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:05 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

bluespicker, i tried the -6db recording/mix thing and it does work but for me, my ear or my rig it just doesnt sound as nice as if i go loud (not clipping) as possable. with the -6db record/mix when i went to master i either raised up some noise that was just barely there before and had to eq it out or it changed the sound as i rose it up somehow.

oscar, i looked at a peavey mixer i have and the yellow was +2. analog style where like bluespicker said...you used to ride the red.

on my digi rig if you go much over 0db you WILL get the nasty noise. wish i had a soft clip to ease the transision over 0db or some sort of tape saturation program...whatever.

what are you guys recording with?

_________________
carvin user since 1989
sound click link
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=841151
http://indiemusicworks.com/artists/his_life_for_mine/
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
Oscar Ortega
Musician


Offline
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Based out of Boise, ID

PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:51 am   Reply with quoteBack to top

jca78 wrote:
bluespicker, i tried the -6db recording/mix thing and it
oscar, i looked at a peavey mixer i have and the yellow was +2. analog style where like bluespicker said...you used to ride the red.

what are you guys recording with?


Interesting Smile

Im doing the scratch recordings on cubase and the drums im using just an example with EZdrummer. However, once I complete the writing for the 2nd CD im going to go with a studio and most likely they will be using pro tools...as its the most common...

for the time being: Cubase LE4, Presonus interface, POD 2.0 direct, ezdrummer for samples.. pretty basic stuff but some guys/girls have made some awesome recordings with this type of set up.

_________________
www.oscarortega.net - www.myspace.com/oscarortega

"The only limits you have are the ones you put on yourself" - Baxter Humby
View user's profileSend private messageMSN Messenger
jca78
Member of the Family


Offline
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 494
Location: outside charlotte nc

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:47 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

oscar you are right some times the simple stuff is the best, as for your pod ive followed them since the first with great sucess and love their stuff. i would highly recomend the x3, the sound and flexability is killer to me. duel tone is nice and different. for direct recording i love it, as per some of the guys here i think im going to see into a 2101 and try that.

_________________
carvin user since 1989
sound click link
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=841151
http://indiemusicworks.com/artists/his_life_for_mine/
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
phalanges
Regular Contributor


Offline
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 144
Location: near LA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:54 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

I record with Sonar Home STudio 6XL. Typically my individual tracks will register at -12 to -6, but my Master is usually just short of going into the red, sometimes slipping over. After learning to use compression, now I'm learning how NOT to use compression. I tended to overdo it at first, using my new toy, but have scaled back. I'm also limiting the number of fx I rely upon. Understand, I'm strictly amateur

_________________
www.soundclick.com/markcourter
View user's profileSend private message
jca78
Member of the Family


Offline
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 494
Location: outside charlotte nc

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:50 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

phalanges, thanks for the comments. i never "try" to add many fx or compression if i dont have to. fx only really if the song just down right needs it. i prefer to use compression only if im peaking on the song real bad of fuzzing up too much on a certain track.

as far as recording amateurs go... i rank lower than whale $hit. Rolling Eyes still a lot to learn.

_________________
carvin user since 1989
sound click link
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=841151
http://indiemusicworks.com/artists/his_life_for_mine/
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
BluesPicker
Way Too Much Free Time


Offline
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 3487

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:25 am   Reply with quoteBack to top

How are you making out with this? Any luck getting the results you wanted?
View user's profileSend private message
jca78
Member of the Family


Offline
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 494
Location: outside charlotte nc

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:49 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

still exploring, ive always tried to make my soungs more "dynamic" or with out much compression to keep intact the live feel. hard to explain but like when you just barely pick the string bending up.... you feel in a live situation, a lower volume and just a different vibe altogether than just straight rocking out. dynamics i guess. whatever. it seems with every cd ive bought its mastered at the highest possable levels and when i listen to mine after that they sound light and flat as a pancake Confused i may end up following the trend and mastering /mixing loud like i did on my older songs and adding compression and limit to reign in the strays. sometimes trying to be different is just too different...

on another note ive been working with a few people and ive been more focused on content (both theirs and mine Laughing ) lately. attempting to play more metal and get out of this acoustic/drive alt rock funk ive been in. so i havent recorded much.

_________________
carvin user since 1989
sound click link
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=841151
http://indiemusicworks.com/artists/his_life_for_mine/
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
Display posts from previous:      
Post new topicReply to topic


 Jump to:   



View next topic
View previous topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


The views and opinions expressed on the Carvin Museum Forums are solely the responsibility of the authors, and do not necessarily reflect those of the
Carvin Museum Webmaster, or of Kiesel Guitars/Carvin Guitars.