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Bundy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:53 am   Reply with quoteBack to top

Yeah, you've heard of GIT right? Wink Dream school for this kid.

I'm trying to work my son into lead playing, and I highly recommend MI Press by Hal Leonard. (Heck, we both failed Speed Kills... Mr. Green ) I wish this stuff was around when I was kid, because I had to figure it out by myself and then research the technical names for everything and discover the theory behind it. Best of all, the book/CD packages are inexpensive and are well put-together.

This site does ship rather fast and the books are packaged well: LINK. Two pages there of instructional material covering just about anything you wanna learn.

Try Rock Lead Basics, get yer pents on and go from there. Great starting foundation if you haven't done so formally, and I'm even having fun with it myself. You might learn a new lick or two and break that rut! Very Happy

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sirmyghin
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:40 am   Reply with quoteBack to top

Speed Kills eh? I ran into something interesting the other day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDw1igyuvxk

I must say he makes some good points, but I have experienced some similar. I didn't play for a few years and when I came back I could play stuff like YYZ. I never used to get stuff like Vai, but now that I can follow it, I rather enjoy his composition and choices. The list could go on for a while, not saying you don't need to work on technique parsay, but approaches can be augmented around it. Check out the Galper Masterclass stuff up on youtube, it is excellent stuff.

Not terribly fond of Hal Leonard stuff, there is just something about they way they are typically written I don't dig; however, "Speed Mechanics for Lead playing" by Stetina is good for mechanics (gets a bit small at times, has modal introductions and the like, I bought it for mechanics as it has yet to yeild a new concept unfortunately). Wild Stringdom by Petrucci has some fantastic ideas, if you are looking for some. Some scale substitutions and such to add modal flavours to your playing, to name one topic.

If you or the son want to go to GIT (I realize on your side it is a joke, but his might not be. Not that I would sentence anyone to try and make a living from music Laughing) , make sure you can read music fluently. The reading/ sight playng portions are often worth a very large part of the intro auditions, more so than actual playing.

By the way, if you want to break into chords, I mean really bust them down and understand them I recommend Howard Morgans Fingerboard Breakthrough as a crash course. The first half is all chord construction and embellishments, the second half all arrangement and application for good moving lines and such. It is available from Truefire
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rascalmanny
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:20 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

It's amazing all the stuff out there today. I remember when tablature came out and thought that was the BEST THING EVER.

Now there's dvd's that show EVERYTHING. And now there's Youtube. Want to learn how to play something? Do a google search.
Mr. Green

......
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sirmyghin
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:31 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

rascalmanny wrote:
It's amazing all the stuff out there today. I remember when tablature came out and thought that was the BEST THING EVER.

Now there's dvd's that show EVERYTHING. And now there's Youtube. Want to learn how to play something? Do a google search.
Mr. Green

......


Tablature is the best thing ever? Shame on you I would say tablature is pretty bad as it detaches the player from fretboard theory. everything becomes finger positions and patterns, not something useful which can be linked to musical theory (which is separate from fingerboard theory). It has benefits in denoting position (but that can be done on staff too), but otherwise has retarded a lot of players progression.

In other words tablature is great for dinkering around and playing others music, but it is terrible for understanding.
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Bundy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:51 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

sirmyghin wrote:
If you or the son want to go to GIT (I realize on your side it is a joke, but his might not be. Not that I would sentence anyone to try and make a living from music Laughing)


Why would attending GIT be "a joke" on my behalf? Right now the only thing that's stopping me from enrolling for the fall classes is money. Razz

sirmyghin wrote:
rascalmanny wrote:
It's amazing all the stuff out there today. I remember when tablature came out and thought that was the BEST THING EVER.

Now there's dvd's that show EVERYTHING. And now there's Youtube. Want to learn how to play something? Do a google search.
Mr. Green

......


Tablature is the best thing ever? Shame on you I would say tablature is pretty bad as it detaches the player from fretboard theory. everything becomes finger positions and patterns, not something useful which can be linked to musical theory (which is separate from fingerboard theory). It has benefits in denoting position (but that can be done on staff too), but otherwise has retarded a lot of players progression.

In other words tablature is great for dinkering around and playing others music, but it is terrible for understanding.


Tablature has been around since the Renaissance and Baroque eras of music. To say it limits theoretical knowledge is misinformed. I can read treble clef and it shows me no more theory on the written page than tab does. Theory is simply the study of how music works regardless of the manner of notation. Is it not possible for a blind man to study music theory without the visual representation of sheet music in any form of notation? Wink

[/logic mode] Very Happy

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sirmyghin
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:36 am   Reply with quoteBack to top

Bundy wrote:
sirmyghin wrote:
If you or the son want to go to GIT (I realize on your side it is a joke, but his might not be. Not that I would sentence anyone to try and make a living from music Laughing)


Why would attending GIT be "a joke" on my behalf? Right now the only thing that's stopping me from enrolling for the fall classes is money. Razz


Fair enough I meant joke as in more you yanking us around and going back to school, but if you plan to do it (ever) all the power to you. Mr. Green

Quote:

Tablature has been around since the Renaissance and Baroque eras of music. To say it limits theoretical knowledge is misinformed. I can read treble clef and it shows me no more theory on the written page than tab does. Theory is simply the study of how music works regardless of the manner of notation. Is it not possible for a blind man to study music theory without the visual representation of sheet music in any form of notation? Wink

[/logic mode] Very Happy


I know it has, and it is a short cut to playing something quickly, even then, that is kind of the point. They also had a lot more musical edumacation stock back then, and a higher instance of perfect pitch. They could do whacky stuff like dissect a piece fully on first listen (and you probably only heard a piece 1-2 times ever, unlike now).

But you get a load of guitar players who learned to play from tablature alone, and look at a C chord as a shape and nothing more, not a combination of C, E and G, in that way it retards developement. The only chords they can play are the ones they memorized from a chord bible or song that had the name of the chord over the tap. Or they genuinely don't know a major scale is 7 notes, not that pattern all the way across the fretboard. I wish I was joking with this, but unfortunatley I am not. That is the kind of recognition it can deprive.

As far as staff not showing more notation it is a bit easier to follow intervals which can make detection of motifs a litle easier overall. I use a bit of both, one for speed (tab when I am writing out parts in long) and one for thought (staffs, when I am doing voice leading between chords and such, as well as crafting moving lines, they are about the same process though).
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Bundy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:46 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

sirmyghin wrote:
But you get a load of guitar players who learned to play from tablature alone, and look at a C chord as a shape and nothing more, not a combination of C, E and G, in that way it retards developement. The only chords they can play are the ones they memorized from a chord bible or song that had the name of the chord over the tap. Or they genuinely don't know a major scale is 7 notes, not that pattern all the way across the fretboard. I wish I was joking with this, but unfortunatley I am not. That is the kind of recognition it can deprive.


You made several good points here. I'm trying to "tutor" a youth band at church, and there simply isn't enough time in a day to instruct each and every individual on the basics for playing their own instrument. I have a couple young Metalhead/Screamo players who have relied on tab (and a rather annoying penchant for whammy squeals and constant Drop-D tuning Rolling Eyes ) their whole lives. Problem is, I'd like these kids to identify what that flatted 7th will do to a major triad, but then I'd have to drill 'em on what the 1, 3, & 5 are for in the first place! Mr. Green

It's not their fault they can't afford formal training (my time is offered for free but with limitations), but my son and I are able to work together much more often. If I had the cash we'd BOTH be enrolling in GIT! Working with my son is greatly fulfilling due to the fact that I had NO ONE to teach me when I was his age--- my boy has a coach, teacher, roadie, and bro all rolled up into one. I'm one lucky SOB.

Either way, standard notation and/or tab is fine but one has to go beyond that and inquire what makes any of it tick. Natural curiousity and all that... otherwise you're just playing patterns and shapes off a page as you mentioned.

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sirmyghin
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:54 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

You got it dude. As long as you take the time to look deeply at whatever notation you are using you won't have issues.

Your son is lucky to have you teaching him too. I had myself , my dad taught me the very basics, but that was all he knew. I was one of those tab kiddies for a long time myself. Aside from having a basic knowledge of scale I was done like dinner. That came from big band too, and sax playing. You teaching him probably keeps him out of a whole lot of other trouble too so it is win win.

Dominant 7th chords are fun stuff, I had my theory teacher describe them to me as 'an excuse for dissonance', in that the tritone ( M3 - m7) really dominates the chord. The tritone is the most dissonant octave, and is pretty important in western music. I went into theory lessons knowing scales, chords, rough interactions. I hope to leave theory lessons with good understanding of jazz harmony. Long way to go yet.
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Brian D
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:32 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

There is much to be said about learning it on your own. There is also much to be said about knowing when you have reached a peak and seek additional learning. However, learning it on your own instills a sense of accomplishment that getting it from a book or video just seems to lack. IMHO of course.

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riff
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:03 pm   Reply with quoteBack to top

Bundy wrote:
sirmyghin wrote:
But you get a load of guitar players who learned to play from tablature alone, and look at a C chord as a shape and nothing more, not a combination of C, E and G, in that way it retards developement. The only chords they can play are the ones they memorized from a chord bible or song that had the name of the chord over the tap. Or they genuinely don't know a major scale is 7 notes, not that pattern all the way across the fretboard. I wish I was joking with this, but unfortunatley I am not. That is the kind of recognition it can deprive.



Either way, standard notation and/or tab is fine but one has to go beyond that and inquire what makes any of it tick. Natural curiousity and all that...


I agree with Bundy, light the fire, learn the math after the hook has been set.
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